In this exciting episode of the OKRs Q&A Podcast, Tim Meinhardt interviews Ryan Leaf, founder of Minsilo – a software platform for Startups that are looking to organize their strategies, implement tried-and-tested execution plans and get aligned. Tim originally found Ryan after reading an incredible report that Minsilo created, (included below). It is an incredible report on alignment and an overall assessment of all methodologies and software players in the marketplace. In their discussion, Tim gets Ryan to open up about a variety of topics and he provides very refreshing and insightful advice on alignment, OKRs, and what makes an OKR program work.
To learn more about Minsilo, check out their website – https://www.minsilo.com
To check out the Minsilo Report, visit – https://www.minsilo.com/organizational-alignment/why-is-alignment-important
If you are interested in working with the Atruity team or have a question you would like addressed on the show, please email contact@atruity1.com or visit our website at www.atruity1.com
Tim Meinhardt:
Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of the OKRs Q&A Podcast, also known as the OKR Corral, where OKR insight is the king. I’m your host, Tim Meinhardt, President and CEO of Atruity, an OKR consultancy headquartered in our nation’s capital. Before we begin, if you’re an OKR fan and enjoy our podcast, please subscribe, leave a review, and explore our website at www.atruity1.com. And finally, should you have a burning question you’d like addressed in future episodes, please drop us a note at contact@atruity1.com.
In this exciting episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with Ryan Leaf, founder of Minsilo. Minsilo is a terrific software platform for startups that are looking to organize their strategies, implement tried and tested execution plans, and get aligned. I originally found Ryan after finding and reading an incredible report that Minsilo created, which we have included in the show notes. It is the best report I have seen on alignment and overall assessment of all management methodologies and related software players in this marketplace. In our discussion I really wanted to get Ryan to open up on a variety of topics, and trust me, he did not disappoint.
He provides very refreshing and insightful advice on alignment, OKRs, and what makes an OKR program work, regardless of size. Lastly, pay close attention to his suggestions on how to determine if your organization is out of alignment, as I believe it is, simply stated, and absolutely fantastic. So everyone, please grab that cup of coffee, put in those earbuds and enjoy my terrific discussion with Ryan Leaf. Ryan, so welcome to the program.
Ryan Leaf:
Thank you for having me.
Tim Meinhardt:
You know, this is really exciting, and you know, just for our audience, I actually met Ryan and we talked a little bit and I met him through a wonderful report that he did all about alignment and I want to talk a little bit more about this when we get going. But I thought the statistics were so fantastic. And I think his whole concept at Minsilo is really, really fascinating. And I want him to delve into this today. So, Ryan, tell our audience a little bit about yourself, your background, and what you do.
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah, sure. So I am Ryan. I’m the founder and CEO of Minsilo, and I’ve always been a startup guy. So I think some of your audience is coming more from the enterprise side. But I’ve really been a startup guy throughout my whole career. Going back to high school with some of this stuff. And it’s really because I love to solve complex problems. And I think the best way to do this is through building new companies. That’s also why I’m a software engineer by trade. So before Minsilo, I was working at a real estate tech company based out of the Harvard Innovation Lab in Boston. And before that, I was actually on the enterprise side. I was in product management over at RedHat.
Tim Meinhardt:
Wow. Yeah, absolutely. You know, RedHat at their public sector was a big client of ours for years, and they love OKRs over there. So, terrific. So how did you get started? What was your thought concept when you said, “Hey, I’m going to start a company called Minsilo?”
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah. So it kind of happened accidentally. I was at the real estate tech company, and we were like many startups in the in a position where we had some things figured out and others we didn’t quite have figured out. And we were lucky we had some paying customers at the very beginning, but what we realized is our business model was not scalable and that we had to pivot, but we didn’t have a process around strategy, around goal setting. We were just kind of solving the needs of the customer that were in front of us without thinking strategically. So one of our advisors, Jeff, came in and gave us a framework for thinking beyond just day to day operations, and he sat us down in a conference room and had us figure out our mission, our vision, our values, and then that led to us coming up with a set of strategic growth initiatives that allowed us to think, “All right, this is where we are today, but here’s where we need to go.” And it’s kind of funny, too. I was also starting to see some of these problems, like, I don’t know how to solve any of these.
So I started reading and I think over the course of the year, from the beginning of working at that company to about a year later, I finished about 50 books on startups and strategy, and I identified something common across all of these books. First of all, building a successful startup is not left to random chance. There are factors that drive success in a startup, and this is actually well written about. But the problem for many founders is there’s so many things to do. It can be overwhelming, and prioritizing the right aspects of strategy early on can be really challenging as well. So I decided that there’s a better way to do this and so I built Minsilo to distill a lot of these practices into an actionable process for startups to follow.
Tim Meinhardt:
You know, I’ve had a chance to review your software it’s very innovative and I love it. I think it’s fantastic. So where do the smaller startup companies really struggle with strategic planning, execution, and alignment?
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah. So there really are three areas I think that startups struggle with the most. The first being that they have their strategy all over the place. So, you know, strategy planning can be a messy process. And I think that’s normal. But they have their strategy in maybe a Google Doc. They might have written something on a whiteboard, less so now in a post-COVID world where people are doing more remote startups. But, you know, they’re in one place, they’re writing it down on a whiteboard, maybe a virtual whiteboard. And in many cases, it’s just a conversation they’ve had, and they haven’t written it down. So their strategy is kind of scattered all over the place. Because they don’t have a formal process around strategic planning, they end up having a lot of gaps in that strategy.
So there are things that they’ve thought about very, very much in depth. But there are areas that they have overlooked, or maybe haven’t thought through fully. And then there are a bunch of assumptions that they’ve built their business on that they haven’t validated. So, you know, everybody knows about Lean Hypothesis Testing and the Lean Startup, but what’s really hard, I think, is often implementing that in practice. So a lot of startups will build something, they’ll hear something from a customer, but they won’t have a rigorous process around validating it. And I think, especially early-stage companies that haven’t achieved product market set, it becomes very dangerous because they don’t have, you know, they think they know what the market wants. But the number one reason startups fail is they bring something to market that nobody wants to buy.
Tim Meinhardt:
Yeah. Yeah, true. Absolutely true. I’ve actually lived that so it’s unequivocally true. So let’s talk a little bit from an advice perspective. You know what advice would you give budding entrepreneurs and why is Minsilo a great option for them?
Ryan Leaf:
Sure. So strategy, I would say, first of all, is an ongoing and iterative process. So you know, a lot of people get overwhelmed with the amount of things that need to be figured out and they want to have the perfect strategy. But I think it’s fair to say don’t expect to get everything right at the beginning. Take it step by step. But what is good to do early on is having a disciplined process around planning strategy. So one way to do this, I think, is to pick a framework or a process that helps to force you to answer specific hard questions about your business. And I think this is really where Minsilo’s great. So Minsilo is designed for startup teams to help them through the entire lifecycle of their strategy from the very beginning stages where they’re answering hard questions and planning everything out, to turning that planning that plan into action, to keeping their people aligned around a common strategy as things change, as the business grows, you know, startups are a moving target, like even larger businesses, really, especially where the amount of disruption that’s happening and for an early stage company, they’re still figuring out a lot of the basics about their customer and their needs. But it can be very challenging to keep people aligned over time. And the report that you’re talking about here, Tim, is kind of about that aspect of strategic alignment. But, you know, having the strategy figured out first is priority number one for startups.
In terms of how we kind of do that with Minsilo, the process sort of looks like this: When the startup signs up, the founding team is asked a series of curated questions. They’re specific about their circumstance. So we’ll ask them the basics about problem, solution, opportunity, things that you might find in an investor pitch stack. But there’s also specifics to their vertical. And these are hard questions to answer. You know, you could do this through a consultant, or you can do this through software, you know, being forced to answer these hard questions is a way that you get to clarity about this.
And one of the things I realized working with a lot of startups and why we built this into the product is you may not have a clear answer. You need to go out and test your hypothesis. So we have lean hypothesis testing built right? And so you can go and list out your hypothesis, list out the assumptions that you have that underlie that hypothesis, and then come up with a plan to test it. And then once you have that, then you can start thinking about goal setting and OKRs, which we can talk about in a few minutes. But OKRs are something that for at least an early-stage company should come after having the strategy clearly defined. It’s much more successful to say, “Hey, here’s where we’re going as a company. Here’s what our plan is, how we’re different from our competition. And this is the set of actionable goals that we’ve developed off of that note.”
Tim Meinhardt:
Ryan, excellent, excellent point. You know, we deal with organizations from time to time that believe somehow, someway that OKRs are a way for them to kind of begin to discover strategy. From John Doerr to Andy Grove, myself included, many other folks will tell you this is not about strategy. It’s about executing a strategy. And we talk about where execution is everything and it’s not what you say, it’s really what it is that you do. So excellent point with regards to that. And I think that’s where entrepreneurs sometimes get it a little bit wrong. Because, you know, they’re faced with this whole entire globe of what it is that they’re trying to think about. And somehow, sometimes things get awry. What do you think?
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I would add to that, that, you know, around execution, it can be very tough day to day to go back to those goals. A lot of startups get caught up in what’s called the whirlwind, which are all the things that seem important and may even be important, but they’re not strategic in nature, that get in the way of real strategy related work.
And so one of the things that we’ve also identified, and we’ve sort of built into the Minsilo platform is the ability to track things like daily stand ups. So if you’re an agile team and you’re doing stand ups, you can do them in Minsilo as well as things like meeting minutes so that you can say, “Hey, here’s what we’re talking about day to day, here’s what we’re working on day to day. Here’s how it relates back to our OKRs,” the classic trap that companies face. And I think the reason why there’s a proliferation of OKR tools is that OKR planning into a spreadsheet that people look at once a quarter doesn’t drive change in an organization and in a startup is a framework that it seems like a layer on top rather than being integral to how the business operates.
And I think that’s a missed opportunity for both companies, small and large is around making OKRs a force for positive progress towards a clear strategy that they’ve defined and making not just steps that are important for today but are driving the company forward for tomorrow.
Tim Meinhardt:
Yeah, no. You know, the visibility aspect is a big deal, okay? And, you know, we’re approached all the time with, “Tim, so how does this all work? Like, you know, I understand that you’ve got to have strategy, but how does this all fit together?” And, you know, having that framework of how a program operates that you mentioned that, you know, you do need consistent meetings, okay. You need them set up in advance. You need commitment from the top that we’re going to be doing this and we’re going to be looking. Imagine if you set OKRs, and these are supposedly the most important things that you’re supposed to be doing. And you look at them and it’s like, no, you need to have good, solid focus. You know, Christina Wodtke, you know, she did a really good job in Radical Focus with that OKR Foursquare. So the Foursquare is nothing more than a tool, OK? Again, a tool to be able to stay focused. Okay, so here’s our objectives and key results. What are our priorities? What are the things that are on the horizon that we need to keep aware of?
And then, you know, from a health metric and keep-an-eye-on perspective, what else is important that we’re just keeping an eye on? But building that framework where you do things consistently over time and including those meetings and having those powerful conversations which goes to that second part of OKRs, which is, you know, the CFR aspect of it, you know, communication, feedback, and the one that we all forget sometimes is recognition. Hey, that recognition keeps people motivated. And, you know, you can have all the great tools in the world, but you need to be able to have that framework of how do you manage and run this program? And someone needs to be in charge of it to hold people accountable. Because the greatest response I get when we’re managing a program for somebody is, “Oh, I would have been prepared, but I’m really busy.” Well, that’s not necessarily an acceptable practice over the long haul. So I think you’re 100% right, Ryan, that organizations need to be able to distill this down to a management function as well because there’s so many things going on in their world that they need the framework that OKRs can provide, as well as that agile understanding of strategy.
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah, Tim, that was actually a really interesting point you just brought up, which I think is also a lot of companies try to force a new process in place without thinking about how to integrate it into what they’re doing day-to-day and so the best implementations of OKRs I’ve seen have been integrated into day-to-day agile processes that they’re already doing. Maybe they have a daily stand up, let’s talk about “Here’s what we’re doing and why it ties to our OKRs.” Maybe they run on sprints. Every sprint planning meeting they should be talking about “Here’s what we’re working on and here’s why it’s important.” I couldn’t agree more, Tim, I think the biggest challenge is really it isn’t in knowing what OKRs are, it’s in figuring out how do we make this applicable to everybody day-to-day, and then incentives are really the other aspect of that. And I’m happy to dive into that more.
Tim Meinhardt:
Before we continue with the interview. We’d like to tell you a little bit about Atruity.
Stephanie Meinhardt:
At Atruity we understand the challenge of implementing a successful OKR program. While the methodology may be straightforward and easy to understand, the implementation and execution of the program can seem daunting. Your team is concerned because you’re unsure how to properly implement or manage your OKR program. You are not alone. This is where Atruity comes in. We know how to implement an OKR program and are experts in OKR implementation and management. By using our proven methods and implementation structure, we can help you to successfully implement OKRs within your organization in as little as 30 days. If your organization is considering implementing OKRs or struggling with the management of the program, do not hesitate to reach out to us at contact@atruity1.com. Remember, no plan succeeds on its own—execution is everything.
Tim Meinhardt:
You know, one of the things we when we use the Foursquare tool, when we’re not using somebody says, “Hey, we’re not ready for the software yet,” and we do use the Foursquare tool that Christina talks about. It’s amazing what they put down as priorities. “Hey, I got a vacation day, that’s a priority.” But that’s not a priority, okay? These are priorities as they’re related to your key results. What is it that you’re doing specifically to move the needle on the things that are most important? You deem them to be most important, so now what are your priorities for the week? Thousand things to do in your life, okay?
The other thing is people get into, Ryan, a very interesting thing where they get into wanting to report constantly. You know, this, “Hey, I’m having a meeting. Well, I must have to report on something,” right? So other than a major win, what we want people to focus on is what are you doing? OK, what are you going to do over the next 24 hours, the next week, even if it’s only every other week that your team gets together. What am I doing now that I’m going to be doing over the next two weeks as it relates to the key results? Because I’m letting people know what I’m working on. So absolutely can’t agree more that the priorities that are really important, that you should be looking at them and focusing them on them as you go through a particular quarter. So Ryan, what does the entrepreneur and large enterprises share in common with alignment and execution?
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah, that’s a great question. And I think it goes back to what we were just talking about, which is that having a strategy defined in the first place is step number one. But step number two is getting people aligned around its execution. And this is where I think OKRs are often the tool that people choose to do this. But for this to actually work correctly and to lead an aligned team, you have to establish common ground with your team and get buy in from them. The strategy has to not only serve the needs of the company, but also the people in the team. And this is kind of, I think, a foreign concept for a lot of managers. They are maybe familiar with leading top down through a carrot and stick model of “We tie your bonus to your performance or we, you know, you have to perform at this level to stay in the company.” But I don’t think that works well for the long haul. And it also doesn’t work well with A-players, who want more autonomy and responsibility.
And I think that’s the key point there, is you can’t give people autonomy without responsibility, but you have to give them the right context to understand, “All right, here’s what I’m working on. Here’s why it matters. Here’s what we’re actually trying to do as a business.” Not just my small piece, you know, I’m somebody working in what is effectively an assembly line of people doing each of their functions. It’s I am part of a bigger whole that we’re solving real problems. My work is meaningful, and I’m recognized and rewarded for the work that I do. And I would say also a common misconception a lot of managers have, too, is that everybody’s incentives are the same. Some people want to be recognized. Others want to just work on really interesting things. And yet others are really focused on career growth or income. None of these are bad answers, but you can’t speak to the people that you’re managing the same way. If their incentives are not all the same, you have to find a message for each individual.
Tim Meinhardt:
Wow, that’s fantastic. That was just a wonderful, wonderful…there was so much packed in there. I mean, I take my notes when I do podcasts, I couldn’t write fast enough. But I love that aspect of incentives. You know, some people crave different incentives and so, you know, we always speak about, you know, you’re empowering your people. You know, we’re in this great resignation right now. Even people in small companies, you know, they want to know what they’re doing has an impact and has an impact on where the direction, and where the company’s heading. And that’s a big deal for people. And so, you know, we talk about North Stars as well that, you know, you need as you mentioned, you got to have that mission and vision and things in line that you’re kind of pointing towards as an organization.
And getting away from that carrot and stick mentality. We also think, you know, people instinctually think about alignment as simply vertical alignment, you know, but in true OKR picture and in true alignment, you know, in the Team of Teams, General McChrystal talks a little bit about complex and how, you know, you’re aligned with a variety of different people and that alignment is not only vertical, in fact, quite honestly, it’s much more horizontal throughout the organization. And it may jump levels of authority. It may come down levels of authority, but it’s that complexity and that understanding and having confidence in your team that they can actually execute that gives the OKRs the power and knowing early on in that visibility aspect, that you know, “Hey, we’ve got a gap here. No one’s thinking about that.”
Or what we see also is, “Oh, gosh, we’ve got an overlap.” You know, someone wants to do something; somebody, you know, isn’t thinking of that or both of them want to do the same thing. And, you know, sometimes people operate in these mini silos and breaking those silos down and having everyone collectively be a team of teams is really where you get that absolute clarity of execution that organizations, regardless of the size, as you mentioned, need to have in order to truly be able to go after what I would say is audacious goals that they really want to truly accomplish.
So let’s pivot a little more to OKRs about how they fit in the Minsilo framework. How does that software work, a little bit?
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah. So Minsilo uses OKRs heavily in the execution stage. So you first start off by planning out your strategy, having clarity as to what you’re doing. Then you translate your strategy into OKRs. So, you know, maybe your strategy’s around working with a new market and you’re expanding as a company, but then you can set goals based on that in the software. And it’s not just an OKR tool. There are plenty of OKR tools out there and they do a really good job at OKRs, but where we were really focused is on that combination of both the strategy and the execution. And one of the common misconceptions about OKRs is they alone will not align your organization, but they are a tool for aligning priorities within the company.
And the difference there is alignment requires you to look at things like incentives, look at things like the context that you’re working in. And OKRs are really good for saying, “Hey, here’s what’s important,” and it kind of goes to the old saying, “what gets measured gets done,” and people will try to check the box of those goals. But I think one of the worst forms of OKRs and why we really are focused on the big picture, not just here is what you need to do, is when OKRs are used at a very granular level, they are a tool for micromanagement, not empowerment.
And people update their OKRs and will be like, “My boss needs me to update my OKRs because they need to have a reporting layer on top of what I’m doing.” But that misses the value I think that OKRs can provide, which is really, “Hey, I’m doing really useful work. I’m not just thinking about my work in terms of…” I mean, one of the things that you were just saying previously, Tim, that I was starting to think about is companies try to model the way that they work on the reporting lines, but the reality is work is much more ad hoc. You work with people who are solving similar problems, and OKRs can be a great way to organize people around those problems. But, you know, and this is where they I think in the ‘90s and early 2000s people were really interested in matrix style organizations, but that just meant you had three bosses not that you were actually collaborating with people effectively.
So if you could take that matrix style of communication and apply it to this is how we work, but we are managed through common goals that are shared, that are focused on problem solving and not just, “Hey, I’m in marketing and I need to I get a certain number of eyeballs on our content.” Whatever those goals are, you know, instead of it being siloed as a marketing OKR, it’s more focused on growth, and hey, we’re solving problems like we’re trying to acquire customers and we’re working with sales, we’re working with customer success to acquire and grow our customer base. That, I think is the real power of OKRs. And I think that’s what we’re trying to drive towards Minsilo is, we’re not a top-down OKR platform. We use OKRs in a much more ad hoc…you have a team that’s focused on problems, and we have a way to communicate that across the organization. So you have this ability, but you don’t use it to just enforce the org chart through OKRs.
Tim Meinhardt:
Right? You know, it’s funny, we see a lot of organizations that try to mix old style management with new style OKRs. I had a discussion the other day, someone said, “Well, this is great, Tim, I really love this, but we’ve got so many meetings that we’re meeting right now.” And my response back was, “Well are you meeting on what’s truly important? The rest of it isn’t important, you know?” So let’s talk about things that are really important and who we should be talking to.
So I believe from a managerial perspective that it does open things up because sometimes managers feel like, I loved your comment—I started laughing about matrix means there’s multiple managers like, no, our manager will, I’ll manage them too. I’m going to manage the management of that and everyone’s trying to insert their management capabilities when in fact we should be empowering that individual. You know, there’s many ways to do things. They know it better than most managers do as to what it is that they’re trying to solve as it’s relating to all of these complex issues within the organization. And I think that’s where giving those people the ability to be empowered to make those decisions, I think shows benefit.
And to that point, you know, it’s really interesting, Ryan. When somebody chooses their direction, man they’re much more committed. And what we find is when people are given that freedom, they commit much better, okay? They understand if they’re stretching and they they’re the ones that can say, “OK, I can really stretch this out or I’ll give this a whack. Hey, there may be something here. I just want to make sure I’m having the freedom to be able to explore.” And with management creating just that little bit of change, as I mentioned, where risk and trust are there, that failure is not an option if I really think there’s a better method here. I may not be right, but I really need to figure this out for the betterment of the company based upon those North Stars or what the company wants to accomplish over the next year.
So I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s, you know, having that ability to see all of that is really where the OKRs and everything get their power. So, you know, maybe we’ve asked this question or solved this question, but I really wanted to get your insights here as what you believe are the true guiding principles for what I would consider to be a successful OKR implementation.
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah. I think going beyond the basics of the OKR framework and what you might find in a book like Measure What Matters, there’s a few things I think that we can build on top of that that are really important for successful OKR implementation. The first one is starting with strategy first. You can’t set goals without knowing what you’re doing and broadly how you’re going to do it and what your team should focus on.
The second thing I would say is you should cascade context and not goals. So a lot of people think about are we got companywide goals, we have department level goals, and then we have team level goals, and you may want to set goals at all those levels, but it should not be just a roll up of companywide gets broken down by department, gets broken down by team. Instead you want to cascade that context so people should understand what is the big picture, what is the company doing as a whole? What is my department doing? And then what am I doing in my team? And I would say one of the best tools for this is writing a narrative about your strategy and about what your goals are. What does the company look like at the end of this year? What does it look like at the end of this quarter, even? Just give people a picture of what that is, and it helps them to say, “Hey, you know, I’m working on this, but maybe I should be focusing on this thing instead,” right? And when people understand what is at stake and what they need to do, they’re able to set really effective goals for themselves.
And speaking of setting goals, I would say the third thing is really you should set goals at a team level and then use an accountability system like RACI to assign responsibilities. A lot of people will try to break down OKRs into an individual set of OKRs, but it typically looks like one of two things. One, it’s goals that are completely unrelated to the company strategy, and setting individual goals is really good, but they should not be mistaken with OKRs. And the other possible option is you have a sales team with ten people on it, and they have $1,000,000 of revenue responsibility. So each person has to sell $100,000 of the product to be able to meet their OKR. That doesn’t really make sense, and it leads to a lot of individual work that’s competitive rather than collaborative.
Tim Meinhardt:
Yeah, I absolutely agree, Ryan, and this has really been a very insightful conversation. And you and I could talk for hours on this, but any last bit of insight you’d like to share with our audience today? And I’m going to have you back, Ryan, because I think this conversation goes a lot deeper and I just really have enjoyed this conversation. I think it’s terrific. So we’re going to close out here because we’re going to run short of time. But any last bit of insight you’d like to share with the audience before we conclude?
Ryan Leaf:
Yeah. So this is a bit of insight, I think, for early-stage startups. You might be wondering after this conversation; do you need to focus on OKRs right now or should you step back and focus on your strategy? There’s actually an easy way to test that. So I would first start out by asking yourself, what would it look like if we were successful as a company? What would the world look like, and what would happen to our company and what would happen to the lives of our customers? Write down that answer to yourself independent of your team, then go and ask your team that same question. Ask each person individually to answer that, and then at the end you want to compare those answers. If they’re vastly different, the responses from each person then you’re probably dealing with misalignment around strategy, and you should focus first on that strategy before diving into setting goals around it. And one of the things I would say as like a last piece there is, you know, a good strategy is easy to understand and seems obvious. I’ve had people say, “Hey, well, that seems really obvious.” That’s exactly right. But it’s really hard to get to the right strategy. And what seems obvious may not be easy to come up with in the first place.
Tim Meinhardt:
Wow. I have to tell you that I’ve asked that question I think 70 times, 80 times, and that’s some of the best insight I’ve ever heard. So, Ryan, this was terrific. Thank you so much for being a part of the program. I really, truly have enjoyed our conversation. And I hope to have you back here to talk again.
Ryan Leaf:
Great, thank you so much.
Tim Meinhardt:
You’re welcome, Ryan. Have a wonderful, wonderful week.
Ryan Leaf:
You, too.
Tim Meinhardt:
Thanks so much for taking a few minutes to listen to our OKRs Q&A Podcast. You know, OKRs provide such an excellent, agile framework which is critical for today’s business needs. It’s such a pleasure to have such wonderful people share their stories and journeys with us. Please, should you ever need assistance with your OKR journey, do not hesitate to reach out to us and contact us at www.atruity1.com, and make sure if you have a minute, to rate our show. Have a great week. Stay healthy. And of course, stay happy. Thanks, everyone.
